Jeremy lassen ([info]jlassen) wrote,
@ 2005-06-12 10:52:00
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When Bears Growl (Or how I become the subject of a Secret Service Investigation)



Someone once said “If you poke a bear with a stick, expect it to growl”. On April 20th, 2005, I poked a bear with a stick. On Tuesday, June 7th, it growled.

A little background: At the beginning of April, I came across several news stories describing a secret service visit to an art gallery. The gallery was exhibiting a show that had a piece of art featuring a picture of Bush, and a gun. There was some online discussions as to weather investigations like this have a chilling effect on artistic and/or political speech. I felt very strongly that this investigation was silly, as the piece was by a well known and well respected artists. A simple background check ought to have been sufficient. Showing up at the gallery sends a message that this type of art is not acceptable.

In response to this incident, I created a series of collages, entitled “Bush and Guns”. I “remixed” pictures of Bush (from the AP Photo wire) and guns (randomly found on Flckr)… I posted these new images to Flikr, as a set entitled “Bush and Guns”. With each picture, I posted a link back to the original story, with an explanation that the collage series was a commentary on this incident in Chicago. I posted this set to several “anti bush” political groups on Flikr, and received some positive feedback on them. I also urged others to create “Bush and guns” artwork, and post it online, as a sort of protest against actions and policies, that, to my mind, have a chilling effect on people’s first amendment rights.


On June 7th, Two Secret Service agents showed up at my place of employment and asked to speak with me. One agent said they wanted to talk about something I posted online. I asked what, he one responded “You post a lot of stuff online, don’t you?” and then showed me some color printouts of my “Bush and Guns” pictures. I was as helpful as possible, and explained to them the about the incident in Chicago, and the context of those pictures.

The agents started out with “easy” questions, like my name, address, what I did at my job, etc. Then they started asking if I’ve ever been under psychiatric or psychological care or counseling. They asked me to sign a medical release form so they could contact local hospitals and health care providers and confirm my answers. They asked if I belonged to any organizations. When I said no, they specifically asked if I belonged to the NRA. They then began to ask me to explain each picture, and what I meant by them. I did so.

During the course of the interview, the Agent indicated that the pictures came to their attention because someone reported them to the secret service, and that they have to investigate everything. They assured me that there was nothing political about this… that their personal feelings about Bush had nothing to do with it… they may or may not like Bush anymore then I do, but it wasn’t personal… they were just gathering information.

After about 45 minutes, one of the agents said (paraphrased from memory, not an exact quote) “Let me be frank… I’m having difficulty seeing these pictures as ‘art’. You’re a publisher, and a systems administrator. How do you suddenly become an ‘artist’.” I pointed out that not all art is created formally by trained elites, and that there are plenty forms of artistic expression like this, such as stencil and graffiti art.

He then went on to suggest that the process of digitally manipulating photos of the president, and putting his image in context with guns was akin to seeking his home address, and personal information about him(instead of going to his supervisor), if I had a professional complaint about him. (!?!?!). I was a little flabbergasted at this, and said, no… it’s a creative process… Juxtaposing elements that wouldn’t normally be together is a common artistic technique.

I asked the agent “what can I do to give you insight into where I am coming from. I don’t think my pictures represented a threat, and never intended them that way… they were social and political commentary on the incident in Chicago, and on the police state in the mentality that has pervaded our culture.” The agent then said something that REALLY confused me. He said “You could ‘retract’ them”. I asked what he meant -- “Remove them from online? replace them with a statement saying I don’t advocate violence against the president? what?” Both agents resounded to this specific question, with a generalized yes… that would be a good step.

These agents had previously told me that they were just gathering facts, and had no power to bring charges against me… that they would impartially gather information and present it to their boss, who would then decide if federal criminal charges should be filed against me.

After speaking to me, they asked to interview my boss. They also asked me to help put them in touch with my wife, who was out of town – They would need to interview her also. They also mentioned the possibility of interviewing members of my family… my mother in particular.

I’ll admit it. I was very freaked out. The first thing I did when I got back to my desk was delete the pictures from Flikr. Then I deleted my LiveJournal account, because in it, I talk a lot about politics, and how unhappy I am with the Bush regime.

I’ve INTELLECTUALLY known what the phrase “Chilling Effect” means, from a legal standpoint. But I now know, deep down, in a very personal way, I know what it means. I’m cold as Ice. When confronted with 2 guys with a badge and some formal questioning, and some vague hints, my first action was to self-cenor. Maybe I’m just a sissy with no backbone, but that’s what my reaction was.

Hopefully the process of talking publicly about this incident will help me thaw out.




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[info]nihilistic_kid
2005-06-12 06:06 pm UTC (link)
There there, you're not a sissy. (Nor are you the only person to rate a SS visit over goofiness - I'll pop over to the bookstore and share an anecdote some time.)

I'm surprised you didn't mention that as a publisher your big thing is cover design.

(Reply to this)


[info]novawildstar
2005-06-12 06:21 pm UTC (link)
Some how I'm not surprised in this day and age of "Homeland security" but I'm just sorry it was you that the zero'd in on.

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[info]colubra
2005-06-12 06:25 pm UTC (link)
He then went on to suggest that the process of digitally manipulating photos of the president, and putting his image in context with guns was akin to seeking his home address, and personal information about him(instead of going to his supervisor), if I had a professional complaint about him. (!?!?!).

I know how I'd've answered this in your shoes:
'That's an awfully poor metaphor. I already know what his home address is, just as you do. I know a great deal of personal information about him, just as you or any other American does. And I am one of his supervisors, and so are you, and so is everyone in this nation.'

Seriously: don't let this get you to stop voicing the beliefs you have. Voicing dissent is not an assassination attempt, despite every effort of the Religious Reich to portray it as such.

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(no subject) - [info]colubra, 2005-06-12 06:59 pm UTC

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(no subject) - [info]colubra, 2005-06-12 07:14 pm UTC

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(no subject) - [info]chollythepinker, 2005-06-13 06:54 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]pecunium, 2005-06-13 01:29 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]colubra, 2005-06-13 05:00 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-04-24 07:05 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]colubra, 2006-04-24 08:50 pm UTC

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(Anonymous)
2005-06-15 12:33 pm UTC (link)
A couple random points:
The NSA/CSS is dedicated largely to SIGINT, Signals Intelligence, the capturing and processing of foreign data. Apart from keeping an eye on sensitive U.S information, the agency has little of its manpower deployed against the general populace of the states. Your chances of being killed by an NSA agent aren't good.

Though the Secret Service was initially founded to combat the spread of counterfeit currency, after the 1901 assasination the agency was directed to ensure the safety of the president. In the intevening years the umbrella of protection has been extended to the vice president, those in line to succeed the president, former presidents, their families, visiting heads of foreign states or governments, among others. As part of their duties they investigate any implicit or implied threat against those they protect.

Unfortunately, such a loose definition means investigating everything from completely benign commentary to attention-seeking crackpots. Somewhere in between the two extremes lies art as described in the parent post.
As described it wasn't a statement of intent, but the combination of guns, the President, and political dissidence probably should raise some flags if the SS is doing its job.

Their approach seems a little weird- manipulating the image of the President to enhance accompanying commentary is a well-established tradition. The personal details of all Presidential candidates, let alone Presidents, are and should be known by any politically-minded citizen.

Personally I wouldn't censor my art, but I would attatch a note regarding the Secret Service visit and state my commitment to non-violent protest.

Just my $0.02.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2005-06-15 05:21 pm UTC

[info]mevennen
2005-06-12 06:45 pm UTC (link)
I find the whole thing bizarre. I'm not surprised you were freaked out.

I've just been reading a bio of war reporter Martha Gellhorn, and she reports a very similar approach during the McCarthy era. Seems America just goes through periods of extreme paranoia.

(Reply to this)


[info]nick_kaufmann
2005-06-12 06:48 pm UTC (link)
Thanks for sharing this, Jeremy. We were all worried about you, and I'm glad it turned out not to be anything too major. Because it didn't happen to me, I have distance from it and I actually find it fascinating. Especially the small peek into how the Secret Service doesn't trust the NRA!

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(no subject) - [info]profane_stencil, 2005-06-13 01:24 am UTC

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(no subject) - [info]pecunium, 2005-06-13 01:31 am UTC

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(no subject) - [info]tremblor, 2005-06-13 06:54 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]catzdragon, 2005-06-16 11:01 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]squidb0i, 2005-06-15 02:33 pm UTC

[info]profane_stencil
2005-06-12 06:58 pm UTC (link)
They want to interview your mother?

Thank you for sharing this.

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[info]mizahmidge
2005-06-12 07:25 pm UTC (link)
Freaky... hopefully you'll still post your opinions on politics though..

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[info]yezida
2005-06-12 09:03 pm UTC (link)
Oh Jeremy. That sucks.

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[info]cloudhurler
2005-06-12 09:21 pm UTC (link)
Well, I hope that all works out for you. If not, I would readily sign a petition for your release -- or place a massive book order to cover your legal expenses.

(Reply to this)


[info]annafdd
2005-06-12 09:29 pm UTC (link)
All the same, chilling effect or not, you're a brave boy, and I applaud you.

I would think about doing the same, but I am not an American citizen and I am not covered by any residul protection the First Amendament may offer. I may simply find myself unable to enter the US next time I want to visit.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

No need to be THAT afraid!
(Anonymous)
2005-07-13 08:14 am UTC (link)
While I too would be extremely shaken over such an incident as being visited by two secret service folks, this is NOT a common occurrence in our country! I know many people critical of the Bush administration's politics who have felt completely free to express their viewpoints without fear of harm, and no federal agency has even batted an eye. (They have bigger fish to fry--this is an isolated incident.) You don't need to be afraid to come to the US.

Now, I know that James Patterson novels and police/investigator TV shows like 24 are fiction, but one thing that I've come to realize through those as well as conversations with federal employees is that an INCREDIBLE AMOUNT of real threats exist that we (the general public) will never know about. There are people out there who want to destroy our way of life (this is not the place to discuss if our way of life is good or not, so nevermind that), and in the process, destroy innocent lives, like yours and mine. They do an incredible job of preventing incidents from happening, and much of that is because of newer laws that allow them greater investigative power. Yes, sometimes that investigative power is misdirected, and I'm not saying that's OK--but I do think that we need to give our agents more credit than this LJ entry is giving. They deal with a lot each day--how would you like the stress of having to be correct 100% of the time? 99.99%'s not good enough--that could result in millions of deaths. If they need to check every loose end out to make sure nothing's going to happen to New York, Los Angeles, Chicago, or Washington, D.C., then I would lean towards letting them tie everything up.

Last, I don't think that this LJ thread's hatred of the Bush administration is warranted. I highly doubt that if President Bush knew of this specific situation, he'd approve of the attempt to limit free speech. He'd probably be a little frustrated with the people putting guns and his portrait together (I would be, too, if people were openly that hostile toward me!), but I think in his core he'd understand the value of free speech and dissent. He's got the weight of the world on his shoulders, too, and he's trying to prevent a major catastrophe from happening. Give him at least a little credit--yes, the laws may be a bit too broad, but it's a step he pushed for not out of hate towards American free speech but out of necessity in dealing with these people who want nothing more than to wipe us out.

Having said all of that, I have not seen the tiniest bit of the Patriot Act intrude upon my life, aside from a minor pat-down at the airport recently. As long as what you say doesn't provoke a credible threat to innocent lives or government leader's lives, I don't think the feds will care that much--as I said before, they're concentrating on bigger things. There's no need to be scared of entering the US or scared that you'll be jailed. This isn't Communist Russia or China--we're still the good ol' US of A, however screwed up our legal system is and how litigious our society has become. Things will end up all right--have hope!

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: No need to be THAT afraid! - [info]annafdd, 2005-07-13 10:52 am UTC

[info]benpeek
2005-06-12 11:08 pm UTC (link)
have you wondered how they found the pieces? i guess since you posted them pretty wide, it could've been anyone.

anyway, who knows how i would have reacted. good to see you back though.

(Reply to this)


[info]sekhmets_song
2005-06-12 11:29 pm UTC (link)
Wow. That's just frightening. I can imagine that the result would be very chilling. I've seen a bunch of morons on LJ saying that the incident was no big deal, that the SS were "just doing their jobs, and that you weren't intimidated into doing anything.
Bullshit.

It's good to hear the story directly from you.
Yeah, I think SS officers at my door would be intimidating enough to make me rethink what I was doing, at least momentarily. And, how else is someone supposed to take an SS suggestion to "retract them," other than a bit of a threat. It begs the question, "And if I don't?"
(For the record, I would think that SS agents are always armed. They are akin to a police force, and police officers are required to always be armed, even when they are not on duty. I can't imagine for a second that the US government sends its agents out, unarmed, to interview people it has already decided are hostile. Just because they don't show you a gun, doesn't mean that don't have one.)
I wonder what they think talking to your mother will yield? If your family is like mine, she is the last person to have vital information regarding your political activities. I more see them trying to shame you into retracting your artwork. Our tax dollars in action: It's the Shame Squad. Oy.

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(no subject) - [info]sekhmets_song, 2005-06-13 12:07 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]drjon, 2005-06-13 12:22 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]violentbloom, 2005-06-13 01:15 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]sekhmets_song, 2005-06-13 04:06 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]enile, 2005-06-13 08:59 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]pecunium, 2005-06-13 01:35 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]sekhmets_song, 2005-06-13 04:08 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]pecunium, 2005-06-13 06:15 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]tremblor, 2005-06-13 06:58 am UTC

(Reply from suspended user)

[info]plattcave
2005-06-13 12:06 am UTC (link)
Okay, here's what's annoying and scary to me. All of this was initiated ... by someone reporting you. Don't like what someone has to say? Sic the Secret Service on them. That'll shut them up.

Good luck.

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]profane_stencil
2005-06-13 12:26 am UTC (link)
Exactly, and that point has been neglected. Someone called the SS about this. Chances are, it wasn't someone who actually thought he was threatening anyone, it was someone who wanted to hurt him.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

(Reply from suspended user)

(Reply from suspended user)
(no subject) - [info]pecunium, 2005-06-13 01:35 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2005-06-15 01:35 pm UTC

[info]eac
2005-06-13 12:12 am UTC (link)
(pointed here by husband)

Um, that's fucking crazy.

(Reply to this)


[info]hangedwoman
2005-06-13 12:21 am UTC (link)
[info]copperwise informed her flist about your situation, and pointed us to this entry recently. Thank you for sharing what happened.

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[info]halfmoon_mollie
2005-06-13 01:24 am UTC (link)
[info]copperwise pointed me here, as well. I am...flabbergasted. And I don't think you are a chicken. I've been face to face with the Secret Service, and they are SCARY.

thank you for posting this. I don't know what else to say.

(Reply to this)


[info]scanner_darkly
2005-06-13 03:30 am UTC (link)
This just fucking sucks all around. I'm sorry you had to go through it. And as far as I'm concerned, I think you handled it in a pretty natural way, from someone with no experience with the SS (interesting acronym) or with law enforcement.

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]chollythepinker
2005-06-13 07:04 am UTC (link)
From they way they responded, I'd say that SS is an unfortunate but apt acronym. What they did, and the way they did it is WRONG. The founding fathers of our country must be spinning like lathes in their graves.

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]jennconspiracy
2005-06-13 07:33 am UTC (link)
Wow - sounds very frightening and I agree - bizarre. I would not have had the patience to speak with them at my place of work. I would have asked them to talk to my lawyer. I don't have one but I would have happily gone to jail and had my friends arrange for one rather than speak with them and I would absolutely have NOT taken down anything online.

There is, in fact, some rather incriminating stuff about me on the internet and even when I was applying for a state dept job, I would have left it up and defended my right to freedom to travel and artistic freedom.

(Reply to this)

I want to see those pictures!
(Anonymous)
2005-06-13 10:48 am UTC (link)
Man, I can't believe you took 'em, down! If you don't post them again I would certainly consider you to be lily-livered, and I wouldn't take them down until the point that the substance of you life is really in jeoparday (i.e. family and job). Do the right thing!

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: I want to see those pictures!
[info]drangnon
2005-06-13 06:34 pm UTC (link)
what a dork you are. almost certainly he'd'a been pulled in as a material witness to some trumped-up crime if he didn't agree to retract them. then they would have held him without charge for months. they can, and have, done that.

[info]scanner_darkly pointed me here. I am sad to read this, becuase it's not the first story I have read along these lines. I would not have done such a thing; I won't even join the ACLU and I stopped giving Earth First! dollars for fear that it would bring DHS down on me. I wish Jeremy could have kept them up, but having been interviewed by DIA agents in the past, I totally relate. we can all take comfort that they are probably cached all over the place, becuase information on the Internet lasts forever.

I am linking in my LJ...

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: I want to see those pictures! - [info]jlassen, 2005-06-13 07:41 pm UTC
Re: I want to see those pictures! - [info]meowzuponastar, 2005-06-15 05:32 pm UTC
Re: I want to see those pictures! - [info]jlassen, 2005-06-15 05:40 pm UTC
Re: I want to see those pictures! - [info]hal_duncan, 2005-06-14 12:24 am UTC
Re: I want to see those pictures! - [info]jlindquist, 2005-06-14 06:19 pm UTC
Re: I want to see those pictures! - [info]sui_generis, 2005-06-14 08:16 pm UTC
Re: I want to see those pictures! - [info]sui_generis, 2005-06-14 08:12 pm UTC
Re: I want to see those pictures! - (Anonymous), 2005-06-15 06:30 am UTC
Re: I want to see those pictures! - [info]sui_generis, 2005-06-15 08:06 am UTC
Re: I want to see those pictures! - [info]drangnon, 2005-06-16 06:58 am UTC
Re: I want to see those pictures! - [info]sui_generis, 2005-06-16 08:39 am UTC
Re: I want to see those pictures! - [info]amblinwiseass, 2005-06-15 03:12 pm UTC
Alter Them Slightly - (Anonymous), 2005-06-18 01:11 am UTC

[info]dare2grok
2005-06-13 12:47 pm UTC (link)
If any authority comes asking me questions, in even a slightly chilling manner, it wouldn't take me long to say, "I'll be happy to talk to you . . . let's call my attorney right now and arrange a chat."

Then, after the interview witnessed by my attorney, a call to the ACLU may follow in short order.

I have a good attorney, whom I first retained for my divorce and would feel comfortable calling on for such a situation.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Attorney necessary upon political intevention under the armed badge of authority
(Anonymous)
2005-06-19 06:29 pm UTC (link)
This recommendation to retain attorney for such police-state interviews is absolutely essential. They of course could threaten to take it to their next level; ie. "Lets then take it down to the station?" Could be personally and professionally embarrassing if your politics must remain in the closet at work, etc. (And it really annoys the goons when you "lawyer-up".) However a professional law enforcement person at the federal level will not play the games like on TV's NYPD police soap. Nevertheless, with PATRIOT, disappearances and now Continental US (CONUS TDY?) military investigators in civilian locii, it is absolutely the only protection we have: That is; what we have left of the law via the Constitution and those disabled Bill of Rights that our foreparents died for.

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]warpsmith
2005-06-13 01:23 pm UTC (link)
Please don't allow this to prevent you from posting news regularly as you have been. I know that this must have been a lot like a mugging and you have every right to be scared, but you haven't done anything wrong!

(Reply to this)


[info]wilhelmina_d
2005-06-13 03:49 pm UTC (link)
Not a sissy - you are absoultely not. I love your idea. I wish I'd heard about it before. I'm glad you came back - freedom of speech and expression is IMPERATIVE in a free state. Next time those yahoos try to intimidate, just use four little words: "I want a lawyer". Don't let them try and make you feel that asking for a lawyer intimates guilt, because it doesn't. Don't let them intimidate you into silence. That way lies another Hitler.

(Reply to this)


[info]douglain
2005-06-13 04:06 pm UTC (link)
Of course you're not a sissy. The whole question of whether or not you should have taken down your lj or not is a distraction. It's really stupid.

It does occur to me, however, that you might want to broadcast this thing to the media. After all, the whole point of your protest was that political speech was under attack and your hypothesis has been proven out, right?

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]haddayr
2005-06-13 04:37 pm UTC (link)
I'm glad you re-activated your journal (and I think it was brave) and I second Doug's suggestion. They just went and proved you right. Their tactic is to intimidate you into silence by interviewing your mother and boss for the love of god. If your reaction is to go to the media then their little plan didn't work very well, did it?

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]jlassen, 2005-06-13 06:18 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]haddayr, 2005-06-13 06:42 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]jlassen, 2005-06-13 07:37 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]haddayr, 2005-06-13 08:24 pm UTC

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